RE: Pass your drug test or forfeit your welfare check???
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RE: Pass your drug test or forfeit your welfare check??? - 2/18/2010 6:53:20 AM
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DaveW
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Tinkerbell_
But the point of the question should be, "Should one have to pass an illegal drug test or forfeit your welfare?" And the questions are: Should some bureaucrat in an office hundreds or thousands of miles away try to determine if the oxycontin in your system is legal or illegal?
Is that opiate legal morphine or illegal heroin?
Can they determine if the perscription referenced in the paperwork is valid or not?
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RE: Pass your drug test or forfeit your welfare check??? - 2/18/2010 8:00:11 AM
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trey182
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And also, what if someone on welfare eats poppy seed muffins? They show up on drug tests and would result in a removal of welfare. That wouldn't be fair.
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RE: Pass your drug test or forfeit your welfare check??? - 2/18/2010 8:20:58 AM
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Grace71
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Up here in Mass where I live, those who don't qualify for welfare are using ssi or ssd now. And if you get that, most of the time you automatically get food stamps and medicaid. They haul themselves and or thier kids to docs who label them disbaled or ADD or ADHD and the parents use the checks to live off. You can get a nice chunk of money for these things too. Trust me, if people want welfare bad enough they know all the loopholes to get around rules.
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RE: Pass your drug test or forfeit your welfare check??? - 2/18/2010 8:25:11 AM
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heremainsfaithful
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Ironically, there are muffins in the teacher's lounge right now, and a couple are poppyseed. I think I'll eat one. It will go well with my lithium, effexor, thyroxine, etc. I don't smoke pot, but after the last couple of weeks, I might be tempted - just kidding...I think.
Sorry, having a bad day (and it's only 7:30 here!!!) But my legal caffeine should help, and the sugar from the muffin, and the endorphines from when 25 first graders hugs me in the hall. Calgon, take me away! 
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RE: Pass your drug test or forfeit your welfare check??? - 2/18/2010 8:29:09 AM
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trey182
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quote:
ORIGINAL: heremainsfaithful
Ironically, there are muffins in the teacher's lounge right now, and a couple are poppyseed. I think I'll eat one. It will go well with my lithium, effexor, thyroxine, etc. I don't smoke pot, but after the last couple of weeks, I might be tempted - just kidding...I think.
Sorry, having a bad day (and it's only 7:30 here!!!) But my legal caffeine should help, and the sugar from the muffin, and the endorphines from when 25 first graders hugs me in the hall. Calgon, take me away!
I'm sorry your having a bad day :( I hope it gets better, I'll pray for you 
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RE: Pass your drug test or forfeit your welfare check??? - 2/18/2010 8:33:10 AM
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heremainsfaithful
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I hope everyone knows I was just injecting my weird brand of humor and not trying to diss anyone. I decided not to get a muffin because the dresses I tried on yesterday were all too tight! boo hiss
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https://www2.xlibris.com/bookstore/bookdisplay.aspx?bookid=58896
Eihstein's IQ may be higher than mine, but God's IQ is higher than anyone's.
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RE: Pass your drug test or forfeit your welfare check??? - 2/18/2010 8:42:45 AM
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Consecrated2God
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What if they only tested for harder drugs like meth?
My daughter's best friend's mom is in jail for doing meth. We are all very relieved because she had custody of her daughter, and now her step-mom and dad have her.
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RE: Pass your drug test or forfeit your welfare check??? - 2/18/2010 9:06:26 AM
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trey182
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Consecrated2God
What if they only tested for harder drugs like meth?
Well, poppy seed muffins test positive for opiates, which are used in hard drugs (so according to the test, it makes you look like a heroin junkie or an opium user or something.) So it can still hurt people who aren't abusing the system. I don't want to financially support someones drug use any more than anyone else, and I think that it would be wrong for someone to use welfare money on drugs, but a simple drug test would be an unfair way to go about deciding this issue. I think theres just too much room for error in taking away welfare from someone who is using it properly. Just my opinion.
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RE: Pass your drug test or forfeit your welfare check??? - 2/18/2010 9:15:29 AM
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Consecrated2God
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Wouldn't it be easy enough to just not eat poppy seeds if you are getting tested for drugs?
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RE: Pass your drug test or forfeit your welfare check??? - 2/18/2010 9:16:53 AM
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FunBetty
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Consecrated2God
Wouldn't it be easy enough to just not eat poppy seeds if you are getting tested for drugs?
That's what I was thinking. If a person is getting drug tested for their job, then they'd know better and not consume poppy seeds.
What would the difference be for someone on welfare?
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Pass your drug test or forfeit your welfare check??? - 2/18/2010 9:19:23 AM
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pink..
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FunBetty
quote:
ORIGINAL: Consecrated2God
Wouldn't it be easy enough to just not eat poppy seeds if you are getting tested for drugs?
That's what I was thinking. If a person is getting drug tested for their job, then they'd know better and not consume poppy seeds.
What would the difference be for someone on welfare?
Good point. And they also wouldn't go hang out in someone's home or at a party where the stuff is being passed around.
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RE: Pass your drug test or forfeit your welfare check??? - 2/18/2010 9:20:16 AM
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Consecrated2God
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I don't know how long drugs can stay in your system, but it's not like they could spring it on someone and test them that same day. They'd have to set up an appointment. I doubt they could do it with less than a weeks' notice. Does anyone know whether second-hand inhaled drug smoke or poppy seeds or anything like that would still be in someone's system? On the other hand, if they did hard drugs and stayed off of them or a week (if that's even possible for an addict) would they be able to catch it if they gave them a weeks' notice?
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RE: Pass your drug test or forfeit your welfare check??? - 2/18/2010 9:21:30 AM
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Consecrated2God
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Plus, if they were on prescription drugs, they could bring a doctor's note with them to the testing to excuse whatever might show up from that.
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Pass your drug test or forfeit your welfare check??? - 2/18/2010 9:29:14 AM
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pink..
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I've always been instructed to take my prescription bottles with me so that the tech who is doing the drug test can see all of my scripts. One time I forgot to take in a script for codeine, they just had me drive home and get it and bring it right back to them. It was kind of a pain since it was a 25 minute drive home, but it was my fault that I forgot it, not theirs.
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RE: Pass your drug test or forfeit your welfare check??? - 2/18/2010 9:32:38 AM
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trey182
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Consecrated2God
Wouldn't it be easy enough to just not eat poppy seeds if you are getting tested for drugs?
I assume that the drug tests would be random right? That means they would have to refrain from eating them altogether while in the welfare program. Why should a persons freedom be taken away because certain people don't like what they are putting in their body? If someone wants to eat a poppy seed muffin, they should have that right without fear of losing their job or welfare. It doesn't seem fair to take away their privileges just because some people abuse the system. They need to find a way to weed out the abusers without hurting those who are using the welfare system responsibly, and a simple drug test is not it. Not in my opinion anyways : )
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RE: Pass your drug test or forfeit your welfare check??? - 2/18/2010 9:41:15 AM
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trey182
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Consecrated2God
I don't know how long drugs can stay in your system, but it's not like they could spring it on someone and test them that same day. They'd have to set up an appointment. I doubt they could do it with less than a weeks' notice. Does anyone know whether second-hand inhaled drug smoke or poppy seeds or anything like that would still be in someone's system? On the other hand, if they did hard drugs and stayed off of them or a week (if that's even possible for an addict) would they be able to catch it if they gave them a weeks' notice?
Hmm. I don't know. I do know that marijuana can be detected in your system for over a month after it's use, but I'm not sure how long second hand "use" would stay in your system. Also, I think and i could be wrong, that those harder drugs don't stay in your system for nearly as long. But with that being said, it takes a lot for a junkie to get clean, and if there are in the full swing of an addiction, they probably aren't going to get clean for that appointment in one week, but who knows. It still might be unfair to some and leaves some room for error, like in the case of someone who has used marijuana or been around someone using marijuana.
But if they only tested for hard drugs, and gave the person ample time to get anything out of their system, then it seems like only the seriously addicted would get caught by it (which means the responsible people aren't getting hurt by the drug test.) That might be a better way of doing it, if [the drug testing] is going to happen.
EDIT: i just looked it up and it seems like the detection time for opiates is around 2-5 days, give or take. So announcing the drug test about a week before hand should give the responsible people enough time to make sure there isn't anything like that in their system, whereas the junkies probably wouldn't have it in them to get clean in time. So if they were only testing for hard drugs, and not something like marijuana, this might be a good way to go about it.
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God Is Love.
1 John 4:8 -- John 15:13 -- Matthew 22:36-40 -- Galatians 5:22
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RE: Pass your drug test or forfeit your welfare check??? - 2/18/2010 10:30:27 AM
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wretched1
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Tinkerbell_
~~~
I work for the government and that's exactly what they do here. We come to work with an email saying "You need to report to the lab today for a random drug screening." That may not last forever, there are some challenges going thru the Federal courts based on 4th Amendment issues. (random & "suspicionless" testing = unreasonable search and seizure)
Drug tests are not all that cheap to administer/process and we all now how much $$$ overhead the government can add to a process. The tests are getting cheaper, but not the bureaucrats that push all of the paperwork.
As much as you might want to test this group of people - are you willing to fork over more money to do so? Do you think that the number of people taken off of public assistance would pay for the entire testing program? And what of these people that fail - how many would end up in jail where tax payers cloth/house/feed them?
Then there is the cost of dealing with any positive tests (false or real) and followup testing $$$ before the benifits could actually be withheld.
There will be some people who will spend some of the government assistance $$$ on cleansing products in an attempt to hide some drug usage or just out of fear of a false positive. Do you want to fund that "cleansing products" industry - even a little bit?
Then there is the "bigger government" thing..........
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RE: Pass your drug test or forfeit your welfare check??? - 2/18/2010 11:15:43 AM
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Consecrated2God
Posts: 5251
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Tinkerbell_
quote:
ORIGINAL: Consecrated2God
I don't know how long drugs can stay in your system, but it's not like they could spring it on someone and test them that same day. They'd have to set up an appointment. I doubt they could do it with less than a weeks' notice. Does anyone know whether second-hand inhaled drug smoke or poppy seeds or anything like that would still be in someone's system? On the other hand, if they did hard drugs and stayed off of them or a week (if that's even possible for an addict) would they be able to catch it if they gave them a weeks' notice?
I work for the government and that's exactly what they do here. We come to work with an email saying "You need to report to the lab today for a random drug screening."
Yes, but you're at work on a daily basis, making that practical. I don't think it could work the same way with welfare recipients because they are not physically at the welfare office every day.
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RE: Pass your drug test or forfeit your welfare check??? - 2/18/2010 11:22:45 AM
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Consecrated2God
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Nothing moves in a day at a welfare office.
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RE: Pass your drug test or forfeit your welfare check??? - 2/18/2010 11:24:44 AM
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JustaFan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Consecrated2God
quote:
ORIGINAL: VonWeeden
quote:
ORIGINAL: Consecrated2God
Don't they take kids out of the homes when the parents are strung out on drugs?
What defines drugs? you mean illegal drugs....not like zoloft, or prosac, or those psychtropic drugs....
Why dont we get rid of the welfare system altogether? And stop paying taxes?
Or is a 'welfare system" actually a christian doctrine? Where those that have are to support those that don't...?
I'm talking about whatever kind of drug abuse that is being discussed in this thread--the kind that they would take away your welfare benefits over. If you are doing illegal drugs, and they find it out, don't they arrest you and take away your kids anyway? They don't just continue to give you food stamps, do they?
In a hard neighborhood where the police are overwhelmed, they don't even have time to arrest all the drug dealers, let alone the drug users. And no, they don't always take away the children. For one reason, there are not nearly enough foster homes, let alone enough loving and safe foster homes. Some kids are better off with their impaired parent than they would be in some of the lousy foster homes.
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RE: Pass your drug test or forfeit your welfare check??? - 2/18/2010 11:28:24 AM
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wretched1
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Tinkerbell_
I am failing to see how all of these loopholes keep coming up. It's almost as it illegal consumption is condoned and acceptable. If someone is smoking pot pffft...there are worse problems out there.
*sigh*
I think it's time to leave this discussion.
Despite what I posted, I would be willing to pay for drug testing for this group of people and some recipients of funds from churches too, but the response to a positive test would need to be well thought out and I don't have all of those answers. Add to that - that so many well intentioned programs have had unintended consequences; it seems that we are just not that good at seeing into the future.
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