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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? - 7/15/2010 12:54:03 AM
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evry1needsgod
Posts: 2393
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tdd,
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As much as I disagree with my old friend John Wesley on this issue, I don't think he went this far Every1.
I'm not sure what you mean.
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I think Wesley taught that even the holiest of men could make mistakes that were transgressions of God's perfect law.
I totally agree.
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And because of this were always in need of the atonement.
What do you mean by the atonement? If you mean that we are always in need of the power of Christ and the grace of God to help us remain holy, then yes I agree.
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Only he wouldn't define it as sin since it wasn't willful disobedience of God's know law.
So you define our growing process, or our constant need for the "atonement", to be sin? So now we are sinning an infinite amount of times in an infinitely minuscule amount of time?
_____________________________
"Believers are saved from their sin, not merely in their sinning!"--drmark
"Our will are ours, we know not how; our wills are ours, to make them Thine." - Alfred, Lord Tennyson
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? - 7/16/2010 3:17:58 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 3821
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Truth Project
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quote:
ORIGINAL: evry1needsgod
Clearly you need to refresh your memory.
Nope...
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Not at all.
Yes it is, you even speak of it yourself... Even in this very post.
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If you believe it is possible, why do you need an example?
I thought probability wasn't part of it?
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? - 7/16/2010 3:20:27 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 3821
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Truth Project
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
I still have not seen an answer to this question from over a week ago:
And is anyone out there who can explain why they think a Christian can stop sinning for a moment in time but not for the rest of their life. I really do not understand this logic at all!
Your actions for across this forum for starters...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? - 7/16/2010 3:28:12 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 3821
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Truth Project
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quote:
ORIGINAL: evry1needsgod
Not at all. I've known him for much too long.
Hardly...
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He admitted about 3 times in the last year that his answer is "yes" to this thread, but he choose to play a horrible devil's advocate with the single intention to spread discourse and bear false witness on these threads.
Admitted? Please...
And your accusastion is a lie, so right here in this thread you fail once again..
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If he believes it is possible to live sinlessly, he ought to shout that wonderful grace of God from rooftops!
Because you believe so? Where am I instructed to do so?
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Instead, he glorifies the power of sin in the world and ignores his true instinct that he's admitted a few times already. He's not ONCE debated FOR this doctrine.
Because it smacks of pride...
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Not a single logical idea for the doctrine, not a single Scripture reference for the doctrine, not a single rebuttal against those who believe it is impossible, nothing at all. Frankly, we all wish it would stop.
Complete lie...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? - 7/16/2010 3:35:26 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 3821
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Truth Project
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quote:
ORIGINAL: evry1needsgod
Oh, I agree. People define sin (sin that one is accountable for) in many different ways. My Scriptural definition of sin is much different than SIH's because he's an extreme Calvinist, and I am far from Calvinism. Our bias' collide. I understand that. But he's been down this road before, and it's a dead end. To me, for this discussion, it doesn't matter how sin is defined.
Very telling...
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I fully believe that ALL sin can be avoidable. I believe that it IS possible for a Christian to live the rest of his life without committing another sin, so it doesn't matter to me how one defines sin. It does matter to SIH and his ilk, however, because if they can define sin to such a degree they can make it virtually impossible for a Christian to live sinlessly--a completely sadistic, un-Biblical doctrine.
And you and your pals have sin so far out of reach you'd stand a better chance of getting hit by asteroid from the other end of the universe. You have and will go out of your way to excuse behaviors to avoid them being classified as sinful to suit your personal doctrine.
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? - 7/17/2010 6:48:51 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 3821
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Truth Project
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quote:
ORIGINAL: evry1needsgod
Then why do you not argue for sinless perfection?
This is not what this thread it about....
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Could you at least show some proof that you actually believe that it is possible?
You said I "admitted" that it's possible... You should think more before hitting the OK button
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How bout some Scripture? How bout a simple rebuttal to one who post here who doesn't believe it's possible. SOMETHING...
Because this thread is simply a "pride platform" where you and others pound your chest with pride you are not like that terrible sinner over there...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? - 7/17/2010 7:04:56 PM
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evry1needsgod
Posts: 2393
Joined: 2/4/2008
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quote:
This is not what this thread it about....
Ugh...fine, why don't you argue for the possibility to live the rest of our lives without committing another sin.
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You said I "admitted" that it's possible... You should think more before hitting the OK button
Ya, in over a hundred pages that this topic has amassed in the last year, I can count on one hand how many times this admittance was squeezed out of you.
Now, why do you believe it is possible?
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Because this thread is simply a "pride platform" where you and others pound your chest with pride you are not like that terrible sinner over there...
Stop it, John. Please provide this forum with one post of mine that shows a clear intention that I "pound [my] chest with pride you are not like that terrible sinner over there..."
But let's just pretend, for the moment, that you are right and I am the most prideful person you've ever met. Great, sorry...moving on. Why do you believe that it is possible to live sinlessly? Do you have any proof (Scriptural, logical, philosophical, etc)?
_____________________________
"Believers are saved from their sin, not merely in their sinning!"--drmark
"Our will are ours, we know not how; our wills are ours, to make them Thine." - Alfred, Lord Tennyson
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? - 7/17/2010 8:37:24 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 3821
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Truth Project
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quote:
ORIGINAL: evry1needsgod
Ugh...fine, why don't you argue for the possibility to live the rest of our lives without committing another sin.
I thought you said it wasn't about possibility...
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Ya, in over a hundred pages that this topic has amassed in the last year, I can count on one hand how many times this admittance was squeezed out of you.
Squeezed? Hardly... Another lie... Restart the sinless meter...
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Stop it, John. Please provide this forum with one post of mine that shows a clear intention that I "pound [my] chest with pride you are not like that terrible sinner over there..."
It's in every post...
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But let's just pretend, for the moment, that you are right and I am the most prideful person you've ever met.
I never said you most prideful person I ever met
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Great, sorry...moving on.
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Why do you believe that it is possible to live sinlessly? Do you have any proof (Scriptural, logical, philosophical, etc)?
All things are possible with Christ, but self inflated worth...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? - 7/18/2010 12:29:49 AM
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evry1needsgod
Posts: 2393
Joined: 2/4/2008
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quote:
Sure, no problem.. You posted:
I've repeatedly stated that this thread has NOTHING to do with probability. Probability is something only you and your ilk bring to this discussion.
Look at your post # 636. You said, and I quote:
quote:
I thought you said it wasn't about possibility...
You're wrong, because I never said that. I said it wasn't about PROBABILITY, not POSSIBILITY. It's NEVER been about probability...ever. And you provided the perfect quote from me that proves what I've been saying ALL ALONG. Thanks!
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It's quite clear you don't recall things very well...
Show me a post where I claim that this thread is about probability. You shot yourself in the foot when you showed a quote that clearly tells the forum that I could care less about probability. Perhaps you should check you unsubstantial one-liners a little closer the next time you press the "submit" button, don't you think?
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The proof is in your posts of pride..
Please show us all one of these posts that clearly shows pridefulness. You wouldn't want to bear false witness, now would you?
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Buddy? Since when? One day you speak of me and my ilk, and the next we are buddies...
One day you're defending this doctrine, the next day you debating against it. Can you blame me for getting mixed up?
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As good as you?
I neither said that nor implied it. You wouldn't want to add words to my mouth, now would you?
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Are you speaking of your doctrine of personal pride?
Please provide a post that shows me clearly debating a doctrine of personal pride.
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I am sure you again, as you have throughout this thread not be example for that which you preach.
Then lead the way, brother. After all, you believe that is it possible for you to live sinlessly for the rest of your life, don't you?
_____________________________
"Believers are saved from their sin, not merely in their sinning!"--drmark
"Our will are ours, we know not how; our wills are ours, to make them Thine." - Alfred, Lord Tennyson
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? - 7/18/2010 2:15:32 AM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 3821
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Truth Project
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quote:
ORIGINAL: evry1needsgod
You're wrong, because I never said that. I said it wasn't about PROBABILITY, not POSSIBILITY. It's NEVER been about probability...ever. And you provided the perfect quote from me that proves what I've been saying ALL ALONG. Thanks!
Semantics...
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Show me a post where I claim that this thread is about probability. You shot yourself in the foot when you showed a quote that clearly tells the forum that I could care less about probability.
You deny probability, but argue it...
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Perhaps you should check you unsubstantial one-liners a little closer the next time you press the "submit" button, don't you think?
There is no "submit" button...
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Please show us all one of these posts that clearly shows pridefulness. You wouldn't want to bear false witness, now would you?
I am not, you are clearly prideful....
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One day you're defending this doctrine, the next day you debating against it. Can you blame me for getting mixed up?
I never defended your pride doctrine!
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I neither said that nor implied it. You wouldn't want to add words to my mouth, now would you?
Sure you did...
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Please provide a post that shows me clearly debating a doctrine of personal pride.
Anything to do with this "pride thread"...
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Then lead the way, brother.
Welcome to the "ilk"
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? - 7/18/2010 10:09:01 AM
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evry1needsgod
Posts: 2393
Joined: 2/4/2008
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I found this verse in my devotions the other day:
Jud 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
_____________________________
"Believers are saved from their sin, not merely in their sinning!"--drmark
"Our will are ours, we know not how; our wills are ours, to make them Thine." - Alfred, Lord Tennyson
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? - 7/19/2010 3:14:36 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 3821
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Truth Project
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: evry1needsgod
I found this verse in my devotions the other day:
Jud 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
That's nice, but how does it fit into your "God +plus what man must do" doctrine?
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? - 7/19/2010 3:35:29 PM
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evry1needsgod
Posts: 2393
Joined: 2/4/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: evry1needsgod
I found this verse in my devotions the other day:
Jud 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
That's nice, but how does it fit into your "God +plus what man must do" doctrine?
John, I don't know what you're talking about, and frankly, at this point, I don't really care.
What I do know is that we have a Savior who is capable of keeping us from falling. So to say that it is impossible to live sinlessly is, to me anyway, belittling Christ's power and capabilities.
_____________________________
"Believers are saved from their sin, not merely in their sinning!"--drmark
"Our will are ours, we know not how; our wills are ours, to make them Thine." - Alfred, Lord Tennyson
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? - 7/19/2010 3:39:55 PM
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drmark
Posts: 5789
Joined: 7/10/2006
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quote:
That's nice, but how does it fit into your "God +plus what man must do" doctrine? Does God live for us? Does God act for us? Speak for us? Think for us? Eat for us? Breathe for us? Type ridiculous one-line responses for us...
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? - 7/19/2010 3:40:21 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 3821
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Truth Project
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quote:
ORIGINAL: evry1needsgod
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: evry1needsgod
I found this verse in my devotions the other day:
Jud 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
That's nice, but how does it fit into your "God +plus what man must do" doctrine?
John, I don't know what you're talking about, and frankly, at this point, I don't really care.
What I do know is that we have a Savior who is capable of keeping us from falling. So to say that it is impossible to live sinlessly is, to me anyway, belittling Christ's power and capabilities.
Only if you do your part, right? God doesn't do it all.. At least that is what you argue elsewhere... Has something changed?
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? - 7/19/2010 3:47:51 PM
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evry1needsgod
Posts: 2393
Joined: 2/4/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: evry1needsgod
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: evry1needsgod
I found this verse in my devotions the other day:
Jud 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
That's nice, but how does it fit into your "God +plus what man must do" doctrine?
John, I don't know what you're talking about, and frankly, at this point, I don't really care.
What I do know is that we have a Savior who is capable of keeping us from falling. So to say that it is impossible to live sinlessly is, to me anyway, belittling Christ's power and capabilities.
Only if you do your part, right? God doesn't do it all.. At least that is what you argue elsewhere... Has something changed?
Well if Christ lived my life for me and made my choices for me, then it would be impossible for me to sin. At least that is what you argue elsewhere... Has something changed?
_____________________________
"Believers are saved from their sin, not merely in their sinning!"--drmark
"Our will are ours, we know not how; our wills are ours, to make them Thine." - Alfred, Lord Tennyson
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? - 7/19/2010 4:03:48 PM
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drmark
Posts: 5789
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: online
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quote:
His apostles asked what to say and were told just that... Chapter and verse, please.
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Changed of mind comes from God... Indeed, so my question still stands. Does God think for us? If so then how can we ever commit sin when the always and only Holy God thinks for us?
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? - 7/19/2010 8:05:42 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 3821
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Truth Project
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: evry1needsgod
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: evry1needsgod
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: evry1needsgod
I found this verse in my devotions the other day:
Jud 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
That's nice, but how does it fit into your "God +plus what man must do" doctrine?
John, I don't know what you're talking about, and frankly, at this point, I don't really care.
What I do know is that we have a Savior who is capable of keeping us from falling. So to say that it is impossible to live sinlessly is, to me anyway, belittling Christ's power and capabilities.
Only if you do your part, right? God doesn't do it all.. At least that is what you argue elsewhere... Has something changed?
Well if Christ lived my life for me and made my choices for me, then it would be impossible for me to sin. At least that is what you argue elsewhere... Has something changed?
So it is God and what you believe you must do... Thanks for being honest...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? - 7/19/2010 8:22:13 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 3821
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Truth Project
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
Chapter and verse, please.
You don't know? I suggest you regroup and stop calling out others since you seem to lack some knowledge of matters here...
Matthew 10:19-20 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.
Mark 13:11 "When they arrest you and hand you over, do not worry beforehand about what you are to say, but say whatever is given you in that hour; for it is not you who speak, but it is the Holy Spirit.
Some more...
Luke 12:12 for the Holy Spirit will teach you in that very hour what you ought to say."
2 Corinthians 13:3 since you are seeking for proof of the Christ who speaks in me, and who is not weak toward you, but mighty in you
Deuteronomy 18:18-19
"I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him."
Even Christ said what is heard is not His, but the Fathers... I believe that is in John 14
You might really flip when I mention the bible also says we don't what to pray...
quote:
Indeed, so my question still stands. Does God think for us? If so then how can we ever commit sin when the always and only Holy God thinks for us?
Your question stands in conflict with your lip service "Indeed"
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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