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Merlin - 6/30/2009 4:08:30 AM
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ManimalX
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Has anyone been watching this series?
I am a huge fantasy fan, and grew up on Arthurian stories. I forgot to DVR this series, and am about to catch up with the 4 episodes so far on hulu.com.
I have been an avid watcher of Legend of the Seeker. and I hope this series is done as well as that one.
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RE: Merlin - 7/1/2009 3:28:36 AM
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ManimalX
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Ok, this is an excellent fantasy series. I just finished the 3rd episode and have to say that the writing is fantastic, the acting is stellar, and though the effects may be a BIT underwhelming, it is actually a good thing that this is a series that doesn't rely on special effects to keep people interested. This 3rd episode is by far the best yet... an extremely stressful moral dilemma.
And a line, as a long time Camelot, Arthur, and Merlin fan, that I thought was hilarious:
Merlin: "I admitted that I was a warlock and he still didn't believe me. What do I have to do, wear a pointy hat?"
Gaius: " I don't think you could find one big enough..."
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"We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ" - 2 Cor 10:5
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RE: Merlin - 7/1/2009 3:29:53 AM
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ManimalX
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And by the way, by "underwhelming effects", I mean the digital graphics. The costumes, scenery, and cinematography are EXCELLENT.
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"We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ" - 2 Cor 10:5
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RE: Merlin - 7/1/2009 12:22:08 PM
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cajunhillbilly
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i have enjoyed this series so far. I understand a second season is already in the works.
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RE: Merlin - 7/2/2009 6:49:54 AM
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ManimalX
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cajunhillbilly
i have enjoyed this series so far. I understand a second season is already in the works.
That is good news. It is a very well written story.
I was a bit put out in the first episode that the powers that be chose to cast a black woman as Lady Guinevere. I hate it when politically correct muckety mucks try to rewrite long standing characters to fulfill some sort of racial quota. However, given that there are a lot of other liberties taken by the writers with the story of Camelot, Arthur, and Merlin, I gave her a shot to reinvent Guinevere. 4 episodes later, I have to admit she is probably one of my favorite characters. She is charming, noble, and loyal, and the fact that she is quite pleasing on the eyes and has an infectious smile didn't hurt either.
After a little lazy man's research on Wikipedia, it appears that BBC has indeed began work on season 2. That combined with the fact that it is the first British drama in over 30 years to appear on US network TV, and has been picked up by other countries all around the world from Canada to Japan, seems to indicate that it will probably run for at least several more seasons.
I like Controller of BBC1 Peter Fincham's description of his vision for the channel by adding more series like Merlin, Robin Hood, and Dr. Who: "Three generation TV – that's TV you can watch with your grandparents and children. There's not enough of that about"
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"The fool says in his heart, 'There is no God.'" - Psalms 14:1
"We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ" - 2 Cor 10:5
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RE: Merlin - 7/2/2009 12:14:03 PM
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doinkdom
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I just found out about this series. I adore Arthurian Legend, so I've set up my DVR to record the series now. Have to catch up on hulu for previous episodes.
Was a fan of the Robin Hood series back in the day, but not since Michael Praed left the show.
And I just haven't been able to really get into Legend of the Seeker.
Anyways, can't wait to start watching Merlin.
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RE: Merlin - 7/5/2009 3:49:01 PM
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ManimalX
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As an Arthur fan, just be prepared for some significant liberties taken by the writers. They have tweaked the major players and plots quite a bit. Still a great series though :) If you liked Robin Hood, you will like this one.
Merlin has been shwing in the UK since last year, but just got picked up by NBC who is advertising it as "new". You can catch the first four episodes on hulu.com
_____________________________
"The fool says in his heart, 'There is no God.'" - Psalms 14:1
"We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ" - 2 Cor 10:5
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RE: Merlin - 7/6/2009 7:53:10 AM
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Rufas2000
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quote:
And you know they did this how exactly? Have you considered that they decided she was the best actress for the role (as you seem to have found out). I suspect that Angel Coulby would be shocked if she thought she was given the part simply because of the colour of her skin.
I think all he was saying was that in the other tellings of the Arthurian myth Guinevere was not of African descent. So if the goal is to create a TV series based on the canonical myth (a worthy venture as they are great stories) then it would be ludicrous to cast anyone other than a white woman in that role because that is what she was. But since they are forging ahead with their own version of the myth, picking and choosing what to include, what to add and what to ignore, then its great that they have someone from a different background, I'm sure Manimal agrees.
And people get roles based on the color of their skin all the time. If the part calls for an Irishman you don't cast an Asian for it, no matter how well they play the role. How laughable would it have been for the Cosbys to have a couple of white kids because they played the role best? So the Cosby kids got the roles because they were African Americans and that is how it should be. Perhaps some Jewish slaves in Roots? If they play the role best and all.
Anyway, sounds like a great series, especially for an Arthurian fan like myself. Don't know how I missed it. I don't enjoy watching TV on the computer so I'm planning a way to catch up.
quote:
I have been an avid watcher of Legend of the Seeker. and I hope this series is done as well as that one.
That was pure awesomeness. I started a thread on it when it first started, too bad you missed it.  The thread that is.
< Message edited by Rufas2000 -- 7/6/2009 8:02:00 AM >
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RE: Merlin - 7/6/2009 8:27:15 AM
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agapetos
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quote:
But since they are forging ahead with their own version of the myth, picking and choosing what to include, what to add and what to ignore, then its great that they have someone from a different background, I'm sure Manimal agrees. But then you could argue the fact that Merlin was always perceived to be much older than Arthur has been changed, that Merlin could not have gone to Camelot (given that Arthur built it), that Lancelot turned up as a commoner who wanted to be a knight.
quote:
And people get roles based on the color of their skin all the time. If a role (in the Cosbys say) call for it, yes. But 'Merlin' is not based on fact. It is based on a legend. No one knows for sure who Guinevere's parents were ~ to my knowledge, the colour of her skin has never been refered to.
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If the part calls for an Irishman you don't cast an Asian for it, no matter how well they play the role. Ummm... well now, when has being Irish been defined by skin tone? I rather suspect that there are quite a few Asian Irishmen around today.
This is a drama based loosely on a legend about the early years of Arthur, Merlin et al. Take it as such and stop freaking out because their (the BBC) interpretation doesn't fit with yours.
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RE: Merlin - 7/6/2009 1:59:39 PM
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Rufas2000
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You completely misunderstood my post. No "freaking out" occured. I have no problem with their adaptation of the myth as was clearly stated (which since my Mom recorded it I'll be able to see). My only point is that it is unfair to castigate ManimalX for eschewing political correctness.
If it were based on the classic Arthurian myth (which I understand it is not, rending all your other examples of the differences meaningless) then it would be reasonable to expect Guinevere to be fair skinned, since that was the norm in the part of the world in which the legend takes place (it may be legend but the legend is based in a very real place and based on real tribes like Anglos and Saxons and loosely intersects with real history, that's part of the charm). And please don't waste my time in pointing out how the Arthurian myth departs from reality, I'm well aware that swords don't come out of lakes, that magic doesn't exist (at least not like that, demonic powers are another topic) and that "people" who have their heads chopped off do not place them back on and look forward to the next meeting a year hence.
Irish people look very different from Asian people (we are talking lineage not residents). There may be a few with both backgrounds but thats a third entity entirely and of no consequence to the point at hand. A person of Irish stock is fair skinned. An Asian person looks much different from that. Period. Cultural background plays a huge part in real people and it should in any character with any depth. They aren't interchangable. Now if the genre is sci-fi or true fantasy (like Lord of the Rings which takes place in a fictional place) then the ethnicity the actor or actress belongs to does not matter. But most stories intersect with the real world, like the classic Arthurian myth. If they choose to use some of it and discard some of it no problem. But Manimal was clearly referring to the classic myths and immediately added the qualifier since it has been changed he had no problem with it.
< Message edited by Rufas2000 -- 7/6/2009 2:07:05 PM >
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RE: Merlin - 7/6/2009 2:12:46 PM
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agapetos
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quote:
My only point is that it is unfair to castigate ManimalX for eschewing political correctness. But he doesn't know that it WAS political correctness. If a white child had appeared in 'The Cosby Show' (as a natural family member), yes, it would have been political correctness (gone mad). But I don't see how the casting of this role can come down to political correctness.
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RE: Merlin - 7/6/2009 2:37:19 PM
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Rufas2000
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quote:
But he doesn't know that it WAS political correctness. If a white child had appeared in 'The Cosby Show' (as a natural family member), yes, it would have been political correctness (gone mad). But I don't see how the casting of this role can come down to political correctness.
Actually he quickly realized it was not. He only suspected it at first (and mentioned that in his review) then he watched the series and understood it wasn't. Considering the more shall we say classic tellings of the myth I think it was reasonable to suspect it. Not to assume it (because we know what assumptions do) but to suspect it.
For the record I know cultural diversity is a good thing. When writing a story put it in there from the jump like these writers apparently did (I have yet to watch it). To go back to your example if the writers of The Cosby Show wanted a non African American in the family make him or her adopted, give them a background and a reason to be there then go with it. But if a writer creates a character with a certain background then the actor has to be a reasonable match for said background or else the audience cannot connect with it. Ethnicity sometimes (not all the time) plays a part in that.
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RE: Merlin - 7/6/2009 2:41:14 PM
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doinkdom
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I Love it!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Lancelot was awesome! A true knight.
As for liberties...no more than they do on Smallville or X-Men. I think every book I've read and that would be in the 100's, do not agree with many of the characters. Why should this be any different?
And I really like Arthur's character a lot. Most of the Arthur's I've seen portrayed are when he has already become King and he usually seems to be rather mamsy-pamsy. Good to see Arthur with a little hutzpa.
And I have forgotten the actor's name who's playing Uther (just remember him from Buffy...LOL)
Anyways...really like it and look forward to more.
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RE: Merlin - 7/6/2009 2:49:37 PM
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agapetos
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quote:
He only suspected it at first (and mentioned that in his review) then he watched the series and understood it wasn't. Where do you get that from this?
quote:
I was a bit put out in the first episode that the powers that be chose to cast a black woman as Lady Guinevere. I hate it when politically correct muckety mucks try to rewrite long standing characters to fulfill some sort of racial quota. However, given that there are a lot of other liberties taken by the writers with the story of Camelot, Arthur, and Merlin, I gave her a shot to reinvent Guinevere. 4 episodes later, I have to admit she is probably one of my favorite characters. She is charming, noble, and loyal, and the fact that she is quite pleasing on the eyes and has an infectious smile didn't hurt either. If he realised that it didn't come down to political correctness, then why even bother mentioning it?
quote:
But if a writer creates a character with a certain background then the actor has to be a reasonable match for said background or else the audience cannot connect with it. Guinevere's background is clouded in mystery. We don't really know who she is, nor who her parents are, we are simply given hints. Casting Angel in the role only increase the mystery of her life.
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RE: Merlin - 7/6/2009 3:15:59 PM
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Rufas2000
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OK, last call on this so as to not take it too far off topic. Manimal gave it a shot and liked it. I'll grant that he may have made an assumption but having reread the post he gave it a chance and realized his assumption / suspicion / fear was not warranted, or at least not important in this case. I'll let him answer why he chose to mention it.
The comments on diversity and character writing were independent of the Gunievere character in this series. Since they aren't trying to stick to Arthurian canon they have a blank slate to create her character however they would like. That's the beauty of reimagined myth, borrow where it suits you and create when you want to. While I would like a series that follows some sort of Arthurian canon (and each telling has its differences so that may be impractical) I'll enjoy this for what it is. I'll read my "King Arthur and the Knights of the Round Table" if I wish to enjoy the classic telling of these stories. After all, why should the writers of this series be limited to tradition?
And sorry for the off topic. Sometimes we make friends on these boards and are (too) quick to defend them.
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RE: Merlin - 7/27/2009 4:09:28 AM
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ManimalX
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Rufas2000
quote:
And you know they did this how exactly? Have you considered that they decided she was the best actress for the role (as you seem to have found out). I suspect that Angel Coulby would be shocked if she thought she was given the part simply because of the colour of her skin.
I think all he was saying was that in the other tellings of the Arthurian myth Guinevere was not of African descent. So if the goal is to create a TV series based on the canonical myth (a worthy venture as they are great stories) then it would be ludicrous to cast anyone other than a white woman in that role because that is what she was. But since they are forging ahead with their own version of the myth, picking and choosing what to include, what to add and what to ignore, then its great that they have someone from a different background, I'm sure Manimal agrees.
You have read me like a book  It was only a suspicion, and one that may still be true, but regardless, the decision worked wonderfully in this reinvention of King Arthur. If we had found out that the series was trying to be true to original lore, then my suspicions would have more weight, but now that we know otherwise, it is a non-issue.
quote:
And people get roles based on the color of their skin all the time. If the part calls for an Irishman you don't cast an Asian for it, no matter how well they play the role. How laughable would it have been for the Cosbys to have a couple of white kids because they played the role best? So the Cosby kids got the roles because they were African Americans and that is how it should be. Perhaps some Jewish slaves in Roots? If they play the role best and all.
Anyway, sounds like a great series, especially for an Arthurian fan like myself. Don't know how I missed it. I don't enjoy watching TV on the computer so I'm planning a way to catch up.
I can't think of a series over the past ten years that I have liked more. It is an ultra-clean family friendly entertainment spectacular, but somehow manages to be the most powerfully dramatic, edge-of-my-seat story every single week. The dialogue is smart, the directing is and editing are phenomenal, the acting is keen, the drama is high, but all balanced with just a tinge of humor that acts as seasoning on a scrumptious meal. I haven't seen one bad episode yet. Good is good, evil is evil, and those caught in the middle (like Arthur and Uther) have you screaming at the screen to "do the right thing!!!!"
< Message edited by ManimalX -- 7/27/2009 4:23:42 AM >
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"We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ" - 2 Cor 10:5
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RE: Merlin - 7/27/2009 4:14:48 AM
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ManimalX
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SPOILERS********* STOP READING NOW IF YOU DON'T WANT THIS WEEK'S TWIST SPOILED!!!!!!
OH MAN! I just finished this weeks episode "The Beginning of the End".... and DANG! What a closing line! After an entire episode of Merlin, Morgana, Gwyn, and Arthur risking their life to save the young druid.... IT IS YOUNG MORDRED! I guess Merlin should have listened to the Dragon.... but then again, as he asked Gaius, should he do something evil NOW (let an innocent child die) even if it prevents a greater evil in the future (the death of Arthur)?
MAN I love this series!
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"The fool says in his heart, 'There is no God.'" - Psalms 14:1
"We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ" - 2 Cor 10:5
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RE: Merlin - 7/27/2009 4:20:46 AM
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ManimalX
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quote:
ORIGINAL: agapetos
quote:
My only point is that it is unfair to castigate ManimalX for eschewing political correctness. But he doesn't know that it WAS political correctness. If a white child had appeared in 'The Cosby Show' (as a natural family member), yes, it would have been political correctness (gone mad). But I don't see how the casting of this role can come down to political correctness.
You are right. I don't know. But to deny that artsy-fartsy types don't bow down to political correctness is naive. I'm not trying to be divisive or insulting, just stating an opinion: I hate the reverse racist policy of "Affirmative Action" that uses racism to "battle" racism, regardless of which field it is applied in.
Whatever the motivation of the casting director of this series, the choice worked out great, because the Gwyn character is one of the best in the series.
_____________________________
"The fool says in his heart, 'There is no God.'" - Psalms 14:1
"We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ" - 2 Cor 10:5
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RE: Merlin - 7/27/2009 4:29:15 AM
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ManimalX
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Rufas2000
OK, last call on this so as to not take it too far off topic. Manimal gave it a shot and liked it. I'll grant that he may have made an assumption but having reread the post he gave it a chance and realized his assumption / suspicion / fear was not warranted, or at least not important in this case. I'll let him answer why he chose to mention it.
The comments on diversity and character writing were independent of the Gunievere character in this series. Since they aren't trying to stick to Arthurian canon they have a blank slate to create her character however they would like. That's the beauty of reimagined myth, borrow where it suits you and create when you want to. While I would like a series that follows some sort of Arthurian canon (and each telling has its differences so that may be impractical) I'll enjoy this for what it is. I'll read my "King Arthur and the Knights of the Round Table" if I wish to enjoy the classic telling of these stories. After all, why should the writers of this series be limited to tradition?
And sorry for the off topic. Sometimes we make friends on these boards and are (too) quick to defend them.
I appreciate it, Rufas. You have defended me honorably and exactly how I would have done. I can promise anyone who reads this that there isn't a racist bone in my body, which is why I hate racism in all forms, including reverse racism. I guess I have had too much experience seeing "minorities" of lesser qualifications getting jobs, scholarships, and appointments over folks of better qualifications, just because of skin color.
Now that it is clear that "Merlin" is a complete reinvention of the legend, and not a politically correct, affirmative action recast of the original legend, the whole cast could be Eskimos and Aborigines and I wouldn't care.
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"The fool says in his heart, 'There is no God.'" - Psalms 14:1
"We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ" - 2 Cor 10:5
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RE: Merlin - 7/28/2009 5:15:35 AM
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ManimalX
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quote:
ORIGINAL: doinkdom
I found it interesting that Morgana heard Mordred say her name...the connection was acknowledged, at least by the audience.
And as soon as the dragon said the boy would come back to kill Arthur...I just knew it was Mordred..course how that will walk out in this series, if it ever gets to that point...should be interesting. And I have to wonder if Arthur got caught, what would Uther really do?
I wonder if the story will follow more closely to the legend and Mordred will one day defend Morgana and her "magic" against Camelot...hmmm...
Anyhow...I do love this show!
Absolutely. The character of Morgana la Fay in most of the "canon" material has her as an obscure sorceress and adversary of Arthur and the Round Table. I wonder if Merlin is going to move her to that position, or if she will remain a loyal friend. Methinks they need to start alienating her more and more, since as it is all of the "threats" in the series have come from outside, previously unknown sources (the ancient sorceress, the scorned and scarred wizard, the unknown knight, the druid man and his son, etc). Methinks pretty soon there will have to be some unresolvable conflict between the main characters. It is all a little too friendly to last.
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"The fool says in his heart, 'There is no God.'" - Psalms 14:1
"We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ" - 2 Cor 10:5
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RE: Merlin - 7/28/2009 10:19:21 AM
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doinkdom
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Some of the stories have Uther banishing Morgana because of magic...so...hmmm...maybe the voice was the beginning.
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RE: Merlin - 8/3/2009 3:48:52 AM
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ManimalX
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Excalibur was fantastic!
SPOILERS
Uther employed the sorceress to guarantee he had a son, and lost his wife in the process?!?! No wonder he has issues with magic!
Plus, seeing Excalibur forged was cool.
However, with all of these major plot points being addressed in the first season, it makes me wonder how the story will be able to continue and still be surprising and fresh. I mean, we already have the dragon, the black knight, Excalibur, Lancelot, Mordred, etc. I suppose they are all good for returns in a few more episodes (well, except the black knight, of course), but I am assuming the story will start turning inward rather quickly and focus on straining relationships between all of the regular characters.
_____________________________
"The fool says in his heart, 'There is no God.'" - Psalms 14:1
"We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ" - 2 Cor 10:5
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