|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login  | |
|
Giants and Nephilim - 2/21/2010 12:01:07 AM
|
|
|
slartibartfast9
Posts: 45
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline
|
There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
-Genesis 6:4
What I am CERTAIN of is that giants did exist. How tall they were, I don't know. How human they were, I don't know. Whether or not they had additional superhuman (or even magical) powers, I also don't know. The fact that these giants were referred to as "men of renown" seems to hint that: 1) they resembled the physical appearance of "men", 2) some additional powers might have been possessed by them to warrant the descript of being "renown".
I have investigated the existence of skeletons and bones in ancient archaeology as well as ancient reports of giants outside of the Bible. The only discoveries that secular science will support is that of Gigantopithecus, or "giant ape". They do not believe they were human. It should be noted that the man who DISCOVERED this skeleton DID think it was human, and even wanted the name to be Meganthropus, or "huge man". These skeletons are approximately 10 feet in height. You will see them in text books as hairy, ape-looking creatures who walk on all fours. How do we they know this? Assumption. The evolution-backers are forced to fit this "species" into their preconceived theory. Forget about the fact that many of their body structures are in exact proportion to humans.
As for larger humans (or apes) than 10 feet, there is a lot of conspiracy theory involved. Many, many, many claims have been made that skeletons, or parts of skeletons, have been found which are 15 to 25 feet in height.
King Og in the Bible, who lived in Bashan with other giants, slept in a bed with a length of up to 18 feet. Who, I ask, would sleep in an 18 foot bed unless you were pretty darn close to that height? It's ridiculous to think he was not every bit of that height.
I guess what I'm really wondering is this...
I totally understand that there ARE conspiracy theories out there which ARE unfounded and ridiculous. But is this issue so prevalant around the world that it would be impossible to cover it all up? And this begs the question of WHO would cover it up and WHY.
I will answer the first question by saying, yes, the claims of giant skeletons or evidence is worldwide BUT it's not of enough interest to the general public for a real coverup to be impossible. In other words, there wouldn't be scores of people who are demanding the truth. (Look at the recent discovery of the 3 foot human pygmy race who were NOT dwarfs and lived only a few thousand years ago. Did the public go crazy and start asking important questions or challenge evolution? No.)
The answer to my second question would be to look at global warming. There are scientists and politicians who have so much money and status on the line that they can't risk their theory being false, so they disregard evidence which shows anything contrary and exaggerate evidence which supports them. We have SEEN this with our own eyes, have we not?
< Message edited by slartibartfast9 -- 2/21/2010 12:09:08 AM >
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Giants and Nephilim - 2/21/2010 3:41:25 AM
|
|
|
gralan
Posts: 2023
Joined: 1/29/2010
From: RV in Texas
Status: online
|
Wow.
You covered a couple of bases wide enough from each other I don't know how to field them both with one throw.
A judgement call is this:
Often we base our opinions on what we think is reality.
Thank you Lord that I do not have to have a valid opinion in order to be saved.
I will say that we have no record of two separate species joining together to create offspring, and those that are related often are sterile and unable to reproduce. Please correct me if I'm wrong about this. I only went to high school in America, and who knows the standard I was taught by my teachers.
I've got my theories of what you raise, but I'll watch to see what others do with this before I put more than my toe in the water.
Been burned too often by people in CrossWalk who are eager to slam folks who differ in opinion from them.
_____________________________
suffering servant,
gralan,
BTh student TGSAT
//TrinityTheology.org/
check out:
//freecourses.trinitytheology.org/
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Giants and Nephilim - 2/21/2010 4:36:28 AM
|
|
|
ManimalX
Posts: 2619
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
|
1) I think the reference to "giants" or "nephilim" are too vague for modern Christians to use to draw any meaningful conclusions.
2) Comments from two preachers/teachers whom I respect greatly, from Deut 3:11
a) R.C. Sproul/Lignoier Ministries Reformation Study Bible commentary on Og:
quote:
a bed of iron: Og's bed, thirteen feet long, suggests he was a giant and that his people, the Rephaim, were also giants (2:10-12 note). The "bed" may actually have been a sarcophagus; the word translated "bed" is rare and could here be a euphemism for a sarcophagus, which would be large enough to also hold tomb objects. The reference "iron" may only mean that it was joined or trimmed with iron, a new material at this date (before the Iron Age c. 1200B.C.) cf. 8:9.
b) Comments from John MacArthur's MacArthur Study Bible
quote:
3:11 an iron bedstead. The bedstead may actually have been a coffin, which would have been large enough to also hold tomb objects. The size of the "bedstead", 13 1/2 by 6ft., emphasized the largeness of Og, who was a giant (the last of the Rephaim, a race of giants). As God had given Israel over the giant Og, so would he give them victory over the giants in the land.
I lean towards believing that there were "giants" on the Earth, but I reject that they were the "offspring" of demons and humans (demons are spirit, unable to reproduce with flesh). But...
The bottom line that it doesn't really matter. It has nothing to do with our salvation. If "giant" skeletons are ever found and can be "dated" to the correct time, then bully for the Bible. Just one more archaeological discovery to join the hundreds and thousands of others that support a Biblical account of history. If not, it really isn't a big deal.
_____________________________
"The fool says in his heart, 'There is no God.'" - Psalms 14:1
"We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ" - 2 Cor 10:5
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Giants and Nephilim - 2/21/2010 6:58:18 AM
|
|
|
RSchorne
Posts: 157
Joined: 1/9/2010
Status: offline
|
"...dated correctly".
I'd love to know which scientific methods of dating you think hold water ManimalX.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Giants and Nephilim - 2/21/2010 11:00:19 AM
|
|
|
slartibartfast9
Posts: 45
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline
|
So are some of you saying that you don't believe giants were real in the Bible, or that there is some other explanation?
How do you explain this verse?
And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.
-Numbers 13:33
I wouldn't describe myself as a "grasshopper" in comparison to someone else unless there was a huge difference in height. Even Robert Wadlow, the tallest human in the world, at almost 8 feet, I wouldn't compare myself as a "grasshopper" with.
One reason the Bible doesn't get into great detail about giants is because that is not the purpose of the Bible. The purpose of the Bible is to provide the necessary information for man to understand his relationship to God. Details about "scientific" subjects, like giants, is only touched upon so much as is necessary to meet this stated purpose of the Bible. For example, giants represent a seemingly insurmountable obstacle and threat to the Israelites when they were leaving the wilderness. Their trust in God was able to overcome even the giants. This is why they are only mentioned and not described in detail. Kind of unfortunate, but it's the truth. Otherwise the Bible would be 10 volumes each at 5,000 pages a piece.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Giants and Nephilim - 2/21/2010 1:27:57 PM
|
|
|
gralan
Posts: 2023
Joined: 1/29/2010
From: RV in Texas
Status: online
|
I'd like to clarify because of a later post... I believe there were giants. I reject any alien sexual encounters with human beings out of hand.
Demons are aliens to humans.
I believe NUM13.33 describes very tall, large "giant" people. Just go to a basketball game and stand next to the players; even some football and professional wrestlers qualify as making a "normal" sized person feel dwarfed.
quote:
ORIGINAL: gralan
Wow.
You covered a couple of bases wide enough from each other I don't know how to field them both with one throw.
A judgement call is this:
Often we base our opinions on what we think is reality.
Thank you Lord that I do not have to have a valid opinion in order to be saved.
I will say that we have no record of two separate species joining together to create offspring, and those that are related often are sterile and unable to reproduce. Please correct me if I'm wrong about this. I only went to high school in America, and who knows the standard I was taught by my teachers.
I've got my theories of what you raise, but I'll watch to see what others do with this before I put more than my toe in the water.
Been burned too often by people in CrossWalk who are eager to slam folks who differ in opinion from them.
_____________________________
suffering servant,
gralan,
BTh student TGSAT
//TrinityTheology.org/
check out:
//freecourses.trinitytheology.org/
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Giants and Nephilim - 2/21/2010 2:03:36 PM
|
|
|
slartibartfast9
Posts: 45
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: gralan
I'd like to clarify because of a later post... I believe there were giants. I reject any alien sexual encounters with human beings out of hand.
Demons are aliens to humans.
I believe NUM13.33 describes very tall, large "giant" people. Just go to a basketball game and stand next to the players; even some football and professional wrestlers qualify as making a "normal" sized person feel dwarfed.
quote:
ORIGINAL: gralan
Wow.
You covered a couple of bases wide enough from each other I don't know how to field them both with one throw.
A judgement call is this:
Often we base our opinions on what we think is reality.
Thank you Lord that I do not have to have a valid opinion in order to be saved.
I will say that we have no record of two separate species joining together to create offspring, and those that are related often are sterile and unable to reproduce. Please correct me if I'm wrong about this. I only went to high school in America, and who knows the standard I was taught by my teachers.
I've got my theories of what you raise, but I'll watch to see what others do with this before I put more than my toe in the water.
Been burned too often by people in CrossWalk who are eager to slam folks who differ in opinion from them.
Gralan, I agree with you that "aliens" didn't have sex with human women. But can you consider the possibility that what modern humans REFER to as "aliens" are just another word for angels, particularly demonic angels?
The phrase "sons of God" (plural) occurs approximately 6 to 8 times in Scripture and most of these cases it is definitively referring to angels. The Genesis 6 reference is one of the only unclear ones because it doesn't outright use the word "angel" in the sentence or refer to a nearby passage mentioning angels.
The existence of not only this documentation in the Bible, but also mythological stories of extraterrestrial beings coming to earth mating with human women and having extraordinary offspring, lends even more credit to the fact that SOMETHING like this must have happened. If anyone is interested, look at the ancient Sumerian myth of Annunakis, who they believed came from outer space and did precisely what the Bible says happened. Do I believe the Sumerians were flat wrong or that this was myth? Nope. I just believe they had a shred of the truth (as recorded in the Bible) and it was merely tossed around and slightly twisted.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Giants and Nephilim - 2/21/2010 2:47:46 PM
|
|
|
WormHeart
Posts: 392
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: Denmark - pride of Scandinavia
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: slartibartfast9
King Og in the Bible, who lived in Bashan with other giants, slept in a bed with a length of up to 18 feet. Who, I ask, would sleep in an 18 foot bed unless you were pretty darn close to that height? It's ridiculous to think he was not every bit of that height.
Perhaps he wanted room for 10+ concubines as well?
When we are faced with something strange, I firmly believe that natural explanations, even if odd, are way better that supernatural/incredible explanations.
WormHeart
ETA: Spelling
_____________________________
WormHeart got married
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Giants and Nephilim - 2/21/2010 3:11:03 PM
|
|
|
slartibartfast9
Posts: 45
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline
|
WormHeart,
Everything can be explained "naturally", including miracles. C.S. Lewis, in his book entitled "Miracles", states that God created the physical world with all its laws and he uses these laws that he created to bring forth all different events--whether perceived as miraculous by humans or not. He points out that it is an error in logic to only consider something to be miraculous if it breaks the laws of physics or other natural law. Why do we have this perception? What if everything God does, including creation and the parting of the Red Sea, can be explained naturally? Einstein even said that a Beethoven symphony can be explained as nothing more than a variation in wave pressure. But it that the complete picture?
The Bible says there were giants. There were giants. Otherwise it would have said "tall men". As far as I know, there are different words in Hebrew for GIANT and TALL. Using Occam's Razor as a philosophical guide, if these people were simply "tall men", don't you think Moses would have written it as such? Giant is a different word.
Did you know that, up until 7 years ago, scientists laughed at the idea that there might have been 3 foot human "hobbits"? And ESPECIALLY laughed at the idea they existed in recent history? And even MORE laughed at the idea that they were NOT dwarfs or genetic defects, but an entire colony? Well...all those were proven true. We found them in Indonesian Islands.
I don't want to wait for science to "prove" something to me. Science at the present time does not have a good track record. The Bible has outlasted shifting opinions for 4000+ years. I'll take that track record any day. Plus the fact of personal testimony. Everything I have ever read in the Bible has worked for me and every one of God's principles has shown reliable. Therefore I will trust it all.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Giants and Nephilim - 2/21/2010 5:58:56 PM
|
|
|
WormHeart
Posts: 392
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: Denmark - pride of Scandinavia
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: slartibartfast9
WormHeart,
Everything can be explained "naturally", including miracles. C.S. Lewis, in his book entitled "Miracles", states that God created the physical world with all its laws and he uses these laws that he created to bring forth all different events--whether perceived as miraculous by humans or not. He points out that it is an error in logic to only consider something to be miraculous if it breaks the laws of physics or other natural law. Why do we have this perception? What if everything God does, including creation and the parting of the Red Sea, can be explained naturally? Einstein even said that a Beethoven symphony can be explained as nothing more than a variation in wave pressure. But it that the complete picture?
No. If a miracle is explained naturally, it cease to be a miracle.
Jesus rising from the dead = miracle.
Jesus rising from a coma = not a miracle.
quote:
ORIGINAL: slartibartfast9
The Bible says there were giants. There were giants. Otherwise it would have said "tall men". As far as I know, there are different words in Hebrew for GIANT and TALL. Using Occam's Razor as a philosophical guide, if these people were simply "tall men", don't you think Moses would have written it as such? Giant is a different word.
Giants can also mean other things beside huge people. But the real problem with true giants are that a human skeleton cannot support a hight of more than aprox 2,75 meters. All the present day giants have serious health-issues stemming from their huge size.
quote:
ORIGINAL: slartibartfast9
Did you know that, up until 7 years ago, scientists laughed at the idea that there might have been 3 foot human "hobbits"? And ESPECIALLY laughed at the idea they existed in recent history? And even MORE laughed at the idea that they were NOT dwarfs or genetic defects, but an entire colony? Well...all those were proven true. We found them in Indonesian Islands.
And that was an amazing discovery.
quote:
ORIGINAL: slartibartfast9
I don't want to wait for science to "prove" something to me. Science at the present time does not have a good track record.
You are joking, right?
quote:
ORIGINAL: slartibartfast9
The Bible has outlasted shifting opinions for 4000+ years. I'll take that track record any day. Plus the fact of personal testimony. Everything I have ever read in the Bible has worked for me and every one of God's principles has shown reliable. Therefore I will trust it all.
Good for you. Seriously.
WormHeart
_____________________________
WormHeart got married
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Giants and Nephilim - 2/21/2010 6:41:00 PM
|
|
|
slartibartfast9
Posts: 45
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline
|
And I would disagree with you that Jesus' resurrection can't be explained naturally. If, for example, we had access to Jesus' body after the resurrection, we might have been able to say the following (and this is a wild speculation):
"Due to the fact that Jesus' telomeres on his DNA did not exhibit the same progressive shortening that a normal human being has over the course of time, we can therefore conclude that he was not subject to the same processes of death."
My point is that ALL PHENOMENON can have natural explanations! Let's look at other examples:
1) Creation -- certainly COULD have a natural explanation if we could understand it (ie, the Big Bang?).
2) Parting of the Red Sea -- "Due to the seismographic, atmospheric, and metereological conditions at that moment, a large surge of water penetrated through a natural land barrier 100 miles north of la-da-da-da...on and on..."
But a natural explanation does not "explain away" anything. Modern science has made a false assumption that if we can "explain" a process, then somehow it's not miraculous. So, therefore, a miracle in the mind of modern man is simply anything that we cannot--yet--explain. And if tomorrow we can explain it, then it's not a miracle. My whole point is that if we knew MORE or EVERYTHING, we WOULD see that all things, indeed, have a natural explanation. But again, this does not "explain it away".
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Giants and Nephilim - 2/21/2010 6:50:36 PM
|
|
|
gralan
Posts: 2023
Joined: 1/29/2010
From: RV in Texas
Status: online
|
Well,I was going to reply and then I saw what people have done with this thread, and its really really sad you guys.
Is there no place Christians can discuss actual Christian opinions and views without getting dumped on with a bunch of worldly manure and propaganda?
Apparently not.
This isn't about science or knowledge. Excuse me for getting in the way of your arguments. Good luck telling Jesus what you did with most of your time.
quote:
ORIGINAL: WormHeart
quote:
ORIGINAL: slartibartfast9
King Og in the Bible, who lived in Bashan with other giants, slept in a bed with a length of up to 18 feet. Who, I ask, would sleep in an 18 foot bed unless you were pretty darn close to that height? It's ridiculous to think he was not every bit of that height.
Perhaps he wanted room for 10+ concubines as well?
When we are faced with something strange, I firmly believe that natural explanations, even if odd, are way better that supernatural/incredible explanations.
WormHeart
ETA: Spelling
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Giants and Nephilim - 2/22/2010 6:07:05 PM
|
|
|
slartibartfast9
Posts: 45
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline
|
For anyone brave enough to explore the potential truth:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCk4VMTGme4
There are twelve (12) videos in total. If you are going to comment or make a judgment, please watch all of them first.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Giants and Nephilim - 2/22/2010 6:18:20 PM
|
|
|
WormHeart
Posts: 392
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: Denmark - pride of Scandinavia
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: slartibartfast9
And I would disagree with you that Jesus' resurrection can't be explained naturally. If, for example, we had access to Jesus' body after the resurrection, we might have been able to say the following (and this is a wild speculation):
"Due to the fact that Jesus' telomeres on his DNA did not exhibit the same progressive shortening that a normal human being has over the course of time, we can therefore conclude that he was not subject to the same processes of death."
But that would totally remove the miracle from the resurrection – in fact it would mean that there never was a true resurrection.
quote:
ORIGINAL: slartibartfast9
My point is that ALL PHENOMENON can have natural explanations! Let's look at other examples:
1) Creation -- certainly COULD have a natural explanation if we could understand it (ie, the Big Bang?).
2) Parting of the Red Sea -- "Due to the seismographic, atmospheric, and metereological conditions at that moment, a large surge of water penetrated through a natural land barrier 100 miles north of la-da-da-da...on and on..."
But a natural explanation does not "explain away" anything. Modern science has made a false assumption that if we can "explain" a process, then somehow it's not miraculous. So, therefore, a miracle in the mind of modern man is simply anything that we cannot--yet--explain. And if tomorrow we can explain it, then it's not a miracle. My whole point is that if we knew MORE or EVERYTHING, we WOULD see that all things, indeed, have a natural explanation. But again, this does not "explain it away".
Being a non-native English speaker, I actually went and looked up the definition of miracle on Websters.
It said:
quote:
ORIGINAL: Websters
mir•a•cle
–noun
1. an effect or extraordinary event in the physical world that surpasses all known human or natural powers and is ascribed to a supernatural cause.
2. such an effect or event manifesting or considered as a work of God.
3. a wonder; marvel.
4. a wonderful or surpassing example of some quality: a miracle of modern acoustics.
I do think we are talking past each other on this one.
WormHeart
_____________________________
WormHeart got married
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Giants and Nephilim - 2/23/2010 1:01:58 AM
|
|
|
ManimalX
Posts: 2619
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
|
Wormy:
I think what he is saying is that a lot of stuff we cal "miraculous" is actually just "front-loaded" natural phenomena. In other words, God designed creation in such a way that the natural factors required for a certain "miracle" happened at exactly the right time. For example, He set up all of the exact climate and weather conditions necessary for the Red Sea to part when Moses arrived. Or, looking forward into the future revealed by Revelation, God set a particular asteroid in motion at the beginning of creation that would eventually crash into Earth (the "mountain of burning fire" from Revelation) at exactly the right moment.
There may be something to this idea in some circumstances. In other words, claiming that God accomplishes His will through His creation is valid. However, something such as the resurrection of Jesus from the dead necessarily HAS to be a supernatural event, or it loses its meaning and potency. Jesus took His life back up after He had died. He conquered death to demonstrate unequivocally His deity. That was certainly not a "natural" event.
_____________________________
"The fool says in his heart, 'There is no God.'" - Psalms 14:1
"We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ" - 2 Cor 10:5
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Giants and Nephilim - 2/24/2010 7:40:34 PM
|
|
|
slartibartfast9
Posts: 45
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline
|
Thank you, ManimalX.
But I would still argue that the resurrection--the biggest miracle--could be explained naturally if we had infinite knowledge like God. You will notice in the definition that was used above, part of the requirement for a miracle is that is surpasses human understanding. But if we can't explain it natrually, that doesn't mean it can't be explained naturally. God, I am sure, could explain it naturally because everything is natural to him.
Tying this back to the OP, let's consider a parallel between Nephilim offpsring of women and demonic angels...and that of Mary and the Holy Spirit. I know this may sound blasphemous, but in each case was there not a union of a physical, earthly woman and a spiritual being? That is my point. In the case of Jesus, he was the ONLY begotten Son. But in the case of the Nephilim, there were an uncountable number. Again...each of these COULD be described naturally if we have the knowledge. This would of course mean that we would need to have knowledge of spiritual and/or transdimensional beings, but it COULD be explained nonetheless.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Giants and Nephilim - 2/26/2010 1:36:17 AM
|
|
|
Sounders
Posts: 2
Joined: 10/27/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: slartibartfast9
For anyone brave enough to explore the potential truth:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCk4VMTGme4
There are twelve (12) videos in total. If you are going to comment or make a judgment, please watch all of them first.
Probably the single most brilliant, super-literal teacher on the planet. The problem is that most Christians, even the ones here have been taught such allegorical, totally incorrect pablum that basic, completely literal interpretation of the original language is set aside for more "comforting" allegory and in many cases total misinterpretation of the Word.
_____________________________
Ripping babies out of the womb before murdering, racist pastors and an admitted terrorist bomber as friends, a wife who's never been proud of America a cadre of Mao/Che/Fidel worshipers, these are just some of the qualities of Barak Hussein Obama.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Giants and Nephilim - 2/27/2010 6:36:48 AM
|
|
|
ManimalX
Posts: 2619
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: slartibartfast9
Thank you, ManimalX.
But I would still argue that the resurrection--the biggest miracle--could be explained naturally if we had infinite knowledge like God. You will notice in the definition that was used above, part of the requirement for a miracle is that is surpasses human understanding. But if we can't explain it natrually, that doesn't mean it can't be explained naturally. God, I am sure, could explain it naturally because everything is natural to him.
I hear what you are saying, but I still respectfully disagree based upon a few points.
1) saying "everything is natural to [God]" doesn't dismiss the supernatural. For example, it is "natural" for God to be able to speak words and create something out of nothing. That is something that can never ever be explained by the "natural rules" of that which He created!
2) I have to restate: if the resurrection of Jesus Christ can be explained "naturally", if it can be explained with the rules and laws of nature, then the Resurrection loses it's meaning. The Resurrection is the ultimate proof of the Deity of Jesus, that He is master over life and death, physical and spiritual. If His Resurrection operates within the rules and laws of nature, then that means it is possible that the act can be reproduced by any natural person. That essentially boils the Resurrection down to, "Well, Jesus just figured out how to do it before anybody else".
quote:
Tying this back to the OP, let's consider a parallel between Nephilim offpsring of women and demonic angels...and that of Mary and the Holy Spirit. I know this may sound blasphemous, but in each case was there not a union of a physical, earthly woman and a spiritual being? That is my point. In the case of Jesus, he was the ONLY begotten Son. But in the case of the Nephilim, there were an uncountable number. Again...each of these COULD be described naturally if we have the knowledge. This would of course mean that we would need to have knowledge of spiritual and/or transdimensional beings, but it COULD be explained nonetheless.
You should know that I don't believe that the "Nephilim" are the offspring of demons and humans. Nowhere in Scripture is there any evidence that spirit-creatures (angels and demons) have any kind of creative power whatsoever. In other words, there is no Scriptural support that any spirit but God can create life.
I would even argue that one of the ways humans are "created in His image" is that we ARE able to take part in the process of bringing about new life. No such description is ever given of angels.
In fact, it is much like my Resurrection argument above: if angels and demons have the creative power to bring forth life in the physical realm, then it makes miracles like the Immaculate Conception and the Virgin Birth essentially meaningless, and ultimately calls into question the identity and authority of Jesus Christ. Mary's conception is a unique, one time creative miracle performed by God Almighty, and is again an action that authenticates the identity of Jesus.
To summarize regarding Nephilim: it is a vague passage that can not be confirmed with any other part of Scripture. To the contrary, the only spirit known by Scripture to be able to create physical life is THE Spirit, God Himself.
_____________________________
"The fool says in his heart, 'There is no God.'" - Psalms 14:1
"We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ" - 2 Cor 10:5
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Giants and Nephilim - 2/27/2010 12:08:45 PM
|
|
|
DanJames
Posts: 698
Joined: 12/13/2007
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Sounders
quote:
ORIGINAL: slartibartfast9
For anyone brave enough to explore the potential truth:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCk4VMTGme4
There are twelve (12) videos in total. If you are going to comment or make a judgment, please watch all of them first.
Probably the single most brilliant, super-literal teacher on the planet. The problem is that most Christians, even the ones here have been taught such allegorical, totally incorrect pablum that basic, completely literal interpretation of the original language is set aside for more "comforting" allegory and in many cases total misinterpretation of the Word.
Hey, Sounders. Welcome to the forums!
Do you really think that this is the case for "most Christians"?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Giants and Nephilim - 2/27/2010 6:28:42 PM
|
|
|
slartibartfast9
Posts: 45
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline
|
ManimalX,
If you don't believe the "sons of God" in Genesis 6 were angels, then how do you explain this verse in Jude?
And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. (Jude 1)
Not only does Jude say the angels left their own "habitation", which by the way means their spiritual body in the original language, but he also uses Sodom and Gomorrha as a comparison (noted by the word "as") in which they went after "strange flesh". Do you remember in Sodom and Gomorrah when the residents wanted to sodomize with the angels? The reference and comparison here is GLARING. If you don't accept the fallen angel view, there is a LOT of explaining away to do.
By the way, did you know the fallen angel view was the common view held by the Christian church up until the 5th century AD? After this, it was abandoned because human reason found it to be hard to believe. They didn't want to sound too out there. So some church father in the 5th century at that point created the "line of Seth" view.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Giants and Nephilim - 2/28/2010 10:32:27 AM
|
|
|
slartibartfast9
Posts: 45
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: ManimalX
I just wanted to make sure we were not ascribing creative power to demons! 
Agreed. But this is precisely WHY demons have become involved with humans in the past and also presently (which is the modern day UFO phenomenon).
Satan and the demons KNOW they cannot defeat God. They are not stupid. So the only way they CAN take a jab at God is by defeating his creation made in his image. Their pre-Flood goal was to corrupt the human gene pool so as to preclude the possibility of any messiah coming from the "seed of the woman". When the Bible describes Noah, it described him not ONLY as a righteous man, but also "perfect in his generations". This means he was genetically uncorrupted by the Nephilim. (Generation = origin.)
Since demons cannot procreate, they must use humans as a vessel. While they cannot reproduce with each other, due to them being asexual, this does not make it impossible for them to artificially inseminate whatever physical coding material they have into humans.
And one final point:
How do you explain the Sodomites in Genesis wanting to have sex with angels? Take a look for yourself!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Giants and Nephilim - 2/28/2010 2:57:45 PM
|
|
|
Dante_Alighieri
Posts: 304
Joined: 1/21/2010
Status: offline
|
quote:
Agreed. But this is precisely WHY demons have become involved with humans in the past and also presently (which is the modern day UFO phenomenon).
Satan and the demons KNOW they cannot defeat God. They are not stupid. So the only way they CAN take a jab at God is by defeating his creation made in his image. Their pre-Flood goal was to corrupt the human gene pool so as to preclude the possibility of any messiah coming from the "seed of the woman". When the Bible describes Noah, it described him not ONLY as a righteous man, but also "perfect in his generations". This means he was genetically uncorrupted by the Nephilim. (Generation = origin.)
Since demons cannot procreate, they must use humans as a vessel. While they cannot reproduce with each other, due to them being asexual, this does not make it impossible for them to artificially inseminate whatever physical coding material they have into humans.
And one final point:
How do you explain the Sodomites in Genesis wanting to have sex with angels? Take a look for yourself!
It's not my intent to sound rude, but I have to encourage you to stop and reread your post again. Surely you can see how utterly ridiculous it is. Demons procreating with humans? Demons being responsible for "UFOs?"
It should be self evident that these are not the sort of logical or rational conclusions any 21st Century individual should come to.
Dante
_____________________________
Nel mezzo del cammin di nostra vita mi ritrovai per una selva oscura ché la via diritta era smarrita.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Giants and Nephilim - 2/28/2010 3:40:34 PM
|
|
|
slartibartfast9
Posts: 45
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline
|
Dante,
What is your background? (Years of education, degree received, amount of experience/study of the Bible, amount of study/experience in the UFO phenomenon.)
Just curious.
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance--that principle is contempt prior to investigation." -Herbert Spencer
|
|
|
|
 New Messages |
 No New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/ New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/o New Messages |
 Locked w/ New Messages |
 Locked w/o New Messages |
|
 Post New Thread
Reply to Message
Post New Poll
Submit Vote
Delete My Own Post
Delete My Own Thread
Rate Posts |
|
|
Forum Tools
Printable Version
